BMI in women, hormones and a little on race and Asian pregnancy

follow-up to

TLDR: Asians have higher BMI and body fat than White women. It’s a racial difference.

Logically, wouldn’t they have messed-up hormones and diabetes, then? Let’s see!

5,000 words -ish.

High BMI, high Testosterone

“cardiometabolic clinical correlates related to total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (fT), androstenedione (ASD), dehydroepiandrosterone-sulfate (DHEAS), estrone (E1), estradiol (E2), and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG).

Results: Waist circumference and BMI (β-coefficient: -0.03; 95% CI: -0.04; 0.03) were inversely related to SHBG, and BMI was positively related to TT (β-coefficient: 0.005; 95% CI: 0.001; 0.009), fT, E1, and E2. Smoking was positively related to TT (β-coefficient: 0.04; 95% CI: 0.01; 0.06), ASD, and fT. Systolic blood pressure (TT: β-coefficient: 0.002; 95% CI: 0.001; 0.003), hypertension (TT: β-coefficient: 0.05; 95% CI: 0.003; 0.11), low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol (TT: β-coefficient: 0.02; 95% CI: 0.01; 0.05), and total cholesterol (TT: β-coefficient: -0.03; 95% CI: 0.01; 0.05) were positively related to TT and ASD. Finally, type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM), and metabolic syndrome (MetS) were positively related to fT, but inversely related to SHBG.

Conclusions: Our population-based study, with sex hormone concentrations measured by liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry, revealed associations between clinical correlates including waist circumference, smoking, cohabitation, systolic blood pressure, cholesterol, and MetS with sex hormones. Thus, sex hormones and SHBG may play a role in the cardiovascular risk profile of women.”

I’ve posted about WHR before.

Both obesity and anxiety symptomatology were separately associated with the same sex hormone alteration in premenopausal women: higher total testosterone level (0.97 ± 0.50 in obese vs. 0.86 ± 0.49 nmol/L in normal-weight women, p = 0.026 and 1.04 ± 0.59 in women with vs. 0.88 ± 0.49 nmol/L in women without anxiety symptomatology, p = 0.023). However, women with anxiety symptomatology had non-significantly higher estradiol levels than women without anxiety symptomatology (548.0 ± 507.6 vs. 426.2 ± 474.0 pmol/L), whereas obesity was associated with lower estradiol levels compared with those in normal-weight group (332.7 ± 386.5 vs. 470.8 ± 616.0 pmol/L). Women with anxiety symptomatology had also significantly higher testosterone and estradiol composition (p = 0.006). No associations of sex hormone levels and BMI with anxiety symptomatology in postmenopausal women were found.

Conclusions: Although both obesity and anxiety symptomatology were separately associated with higher testosterone level, there was an opposite impact of anxiety and obesity on estradiol levels in premenopausal women. We did not find an evidence that the sex hormone alterations related to obesity are playing a significant role in anxiety symptomatology in premenopausal women. This could be the explanation why we did not find an association between obesity and anxiety. In postmenopausal women, other mechanisms seem to work than in the premenopausal group.

Regional fat distribution (RFD) has been associated with metabolic derangements in populations with obesity. For example, upper body fat patterning is associated with higher levels of free testosterone (FT) and lower levels of sex-hormone binding globulin (SHBG). We sought to determine the extent to which this relationship was true in a healthy (i.e., non-obese) female population and whether RFD influenced androgen responses to resistance exercise. This study examined the effects of RFD on total testosterone (TT), FT, and SHBG responses to an acute resistance exercise test (ARET) among 47 women (22+/-3 years; 165+/-6 cm; 62+/-8 kg; 25+/-5%BF; 23+/-3 BMI). RFD was characterized by 3 separate indices: waist-to-hip ratio (WHR), ratio of upper arm fat to mid-thigh fat assessed with magnetic resonance imaging (MRI ratio), and ratio of subscapular to triceps ratio (SB/TRi ratio). Skinfolds were measured for the triceps, chest, subscapular, mid-axillary, suprailaic, abdomen, and thigh regions. The ARET consisted of 6 sets of 10 RM squats separated by 2-min rest periods. Blood was obtained pre- and post- ARET. TT, FT, and SHBG concentrations were determined by radioimmunoassay. Subjects were divided into tertiles from the indices of RFD, and statistical analyses were performed by an ANOVA with repeated measures (RFD and exercise as main effects). Significant (p < or = .05) increases following the AHRET were observed for TT (approximately 25%), FT (approximately 25%), and SHBG (4%). With multiple regression analysis, anthropometric measures significantly predicted pre- concentrations of FT, post-concentrations of TT, and pre-concentrations of SHBG. The SB/TRi and MRI ratios but not the WHR, were discriminant for hormonal concentrations among the tertiles. In young, healthy women, resistance exercise can induce transient increases in testosterone, and anthropometric markers of adiposity correlate with testosterone concentrations.

So exercise will boost a woman’s natural T. If they already have high T….

If their BMI is higher for their size, they already have high T comparatively. If they already have it racially… probably not good.

Results: Breast cancer risk increased with increasing BMI (Ptrend = .002),

Not healthy.

Rare study looking at race directly. White v Black.


Compared to the decline in E2 concentrations, androgen concentrations declined minimally over the MT. T (β 9.180, p < 0.0001) and E1 (β 11.365, p < 0.0001) were higher in Whites than in AAs, while elevations in DHEAS (β 28.80, p = 0.061) and A4 (β 0.2556, p = 0.052) were borderline. Log-transformed E2 was similar between Whites and AAs (β 0.0764, p = 0.272). Body mass index (BMI) was not significantly associated with concentrations of androgens or E1 over time.

so black and white is off the hook


This report suggests that the declines in E2 during the 4 years before and after the FMP are accompanied by minimal changes in DHEAS, A4, T, and E1. There are modest differences between Whites and AAs and minimal differences by BMI.

Cancer and Testosterone link


During a median follow up of 6.3 years, 45 patients relapsed. Testosterone levels significantly increased across BMI categories (p = 0.001). Both circulating testosterone and BMI were positively associated with disease free survival (p = 0.005 and p = 0.021, respectively). A significant interaction was found between testosterone and BMI (p = 0.006). For normal-weight women, testosterone concentration around median (0.403 ng/mL) or third quartile (0.532 ng/mL) showed a high significant HR of relapse (5.52; 95% CI:1.65–18.49 and 4.55; 95% CI:1.09–18.98, respectively). Overweight patients showed increased HR at increasing testosterone levels, reaching a significant high HR (4.68; 95% CI:1.39–15.70) for testosterone values of 0.782 ng/mL (95th percentile). For obese patients HR decreased (not significantly) at increased testosterone concentrations, explaining the interaction between testosterone levels and BMI categories.


In ER-positive postmenopausal breast cancer patients, high testosterone levels are associated with worse prognosis in normal-weight and overweight women, whereas in obese seems to be associated with a better outcome. Although the results require further validation, they suggest that assessment of circulating testosterone and BMI could help to identify postmenopausal ER-positive patients at higher risk of relapse and potentially open new therapeutic strategies.

High T isn’t good, even in normal weight women. Water is wet.

“The findings of this study suggest high plasma levels of testosterone could play a role in the pathogenesis of type 2 diabetes among women,” Jon Jarløv Rasmussen, MD, PhD, a specialist registrar and postdoctoral researcher in the department of endocrinology at Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen, Denmark, told Healio. “The incidence of type 2 diabetes was rather low in the study, but the results implicate that screening for type 2 diabetes among women with higher plasma levels of testosterone may be beneficial, even among women who are young and without established comorbidities, such as polycystic ovary syndrome.”

In a retrospective study, Rasmussen and colleagues analyzed data from 8,876 healthy women (mean age, 38.5 years) who provided blood samples to measure plasma testosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone-sulfate (DHEAS), dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) between January 2007 and December 2015. Researchers analyzed androgens using tandem liquid-chromatography mass spectrometry. Researchers used Poisson regression models to calculate incidence rate ratios for developing type 2 diabetes during a median follow-up of 8.1 years, stratified by androgen quartiles.

‘Normal weight’ women can get Type 2. Since Asians have higher T from higher BMI (against the white norm), they’ll be more likely to get it. This also explains the gestational diabetes common in Asian women, especially if the baby is mixed.

Nationwide, as many as 1 in 4 people who have diabetes don’t know they have it. But for Asian Americans, that number is much higher—1 in 2, the highest of all ethnic/racial groups. Why aren’t more getting diagnosed?

Weebs do not mention this. If your apparent rationale for avoiding fat white women is avoiding the Diabeetus genes, Asian is then categorically the worst racial group to mix with.

1 in 2, flip a coin, rice cooker.

I bet it’s higher in the women due to sweet tooth, so likely worse.

But people of Asian descent have less muscle and more fat than other groups and often develop diabetes at a younger age and lower weight. That extra body fat tends to be in the belly (visceral fat). This isn’t the “inch you can pinch,” the fat stored just under the skin. Visceral fat is out of sight, wrapped around organs deep in the body. You can’t tell how much visceral fat someone has by looking at them.

I didn’t call them skinny-fat to be mean, they really are!

Visceral fat is also sometimes known as “active” fat because it drives certain processes in the body that can increase the risk for heart disease, stroke, and other serious health conditions. Everybody has some visceral fat, but having too much is a major risk factor for developing type 2 diabetes.

….But BMI doesn’t catch Asian Americans in the normal weight range (18.5 to 24.9) who may very well have too much visceral fat and be at risk for type 2 diabetes. Researchers are now suggesting that people of Asian heritage get tested if their BMI is 23 or greater. Type 2 diabetes can be prevented or delayed, but only if people know they’re at risk and can take action!

They need a totally different (lower) testing standard, but they’re just like us, guys! Nay, SUPERIOR!

The same volume food in a smaller body, this isn’t hard to figure out. They’re not white women, eating like us makes them FAT.

re preggers diabetus-

Pregnant South Asian women carry a higher risk for developing gestational diabetes, a condition that’s dangerous for both mother and child. Between 2 and 10 percent of all pregnancies each year are complicated by gestational diabetes

2-10% in which demographic? Sounds like all? I bet it’s higher in certain ones, isn’t it?

Under risk factors is basically – be non-white

  • Being of Hispanic, Native American, African-American, Asian-American or Pacific Islander descent.

Women who have had gestational diabetes have a 20 to 50 percent chance of developing diabetes in the 5 to 10 years following pregnancy.

Mother Nature is a bitch.

Specific study on Asian women-

so healthy, much fitness

Our data indicate that although the historical or clinical risk factors for GDM are valid in Asians, using risk factors alone to select such patients for testing for GDM is inadequate. Many Asian women who develop GDM have no risk factors at all.

When Natural Selection hates you so much… maybe give it up?

r-types have higher numbers of issues like this, that would be fatal under natural law

They don’t ‘choose’ to stop at 1-2 kids, it isn’t ‘culture’, it’s fear (see below).

To avoid overlooking significant numbers of women with GDM, one may lower the specificity of the criteria, but this requires that the majority of patients be tested.

wow, that bad

Logistically, it is much simpler to conduct universal screening for all Asian women in Western countries, rather than to apply selective testing in order to spare a small percentage of women from being tested. Therefore, our findings strongly support recommendations for universal screening for GDM in pregnant women of Asian origin in Western countries. However, in places where the incidence of GDM is low, such as in some developing countries, the selection of patients for testing by the risk factors may be reasonable.

just like us, huh?

has a bloody paywall, nevermind, still linking

Introduction: Asian women have a higher prevalence of gestational diabetes mellitus than women of other races/ethnicities. We aimed to compare the prevalence of gestational diabetes among Asian American women to other racial/ethnic groups and explore whether the higher occurrence of the disorder among Asian women can be explained by acculturation.

Clearly I am making this all up to feel better, right guys?

Why hide this one behind a paywall, hmm?

It is also here.


Among the 5,562 women studied, the weighted prevalence of gestational diabetes was 15.5% among Asian American women, followed by 9.0% among non-Hispanic black women, 10.7% among Hispanic women, and 7.9% among non-Hispanic white women.

15.5% v. 7.9%

Diabetes at DOUBLE the rate of whites!


but they’re just like us

2.44x the risk

and that’s controlled, independently

Compared with non-Hispanic white women, Asian women had 2.44 (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.81–3.29; P < .001) times the odds of having gestational diabetes, independent of maternal age, education, marital status, income, prenatal care adequacy, prepregnancy BMI, and physical activity. Acculturation was negatively associated with having gestational diabetes (odds ratio [OR] = 0.93; 95% CI, 0.86–0.99) and explained 15.9% (95% CI, 11.38%–25.08%; P < .001) of the association between Asian race and the condition.

About 85% genetic. Great odds.


We found that Asian race was an independent risk factor for gestational diabetes, and higher acculturation may play a protective role against it in Asian American women.

In Summary

What is already known about this topic?

Asian women have a higher prevalence of gestational diabetes mellitus than women of other races. However, little data exist on why prevalence is highest among Asian women.

I sense genetics.

If they’re having unnatural babies (too large for their race, mixed) supported by modern medicine, they’d be more likely to die anyway, right? Medicine can only do so much. Weaker genes die a la Darwin.

The biggest r-select factor would be risk of death while breeding, that would be the surest thing. The genes trying to extinct themselves.

Does this data exist? Also for the neonates?


Let’s see the weebs explain away these studies. They’ll probably just ignore me… again.

Go ahead. Ignore your baby and waifu’s graves?

Pregnancy related mortality can be defined as death of the mother during pregnancy, delivery, or within one year postpartum. While 700 pregnancy-related deaths occur each year, 2/3 of these deaths are considered to be preventable.

Modern medicine, dysgenic again.

Overall pregnancy related mortality in the United States occurs at an average rate of 17.2 deaths per 100,000 live births. However, that number jumps to 43.5/100,000 for non-Hispanic Black women and decreases to 12.7/100,000 for non-Hispanic white women and 11/100,000 for Hispanic women.

No data listed for Asian, odd?

For mothers of all backgrounds, leading causes of death include cardiovascular conditions, hemorrhage, and infection. However, for non-Hispanic Black women, leading causes of death include cardiovascular conditions in addition to cardiomyopathy, pre-eclampsia, and eclampsia (hypertensive disorders).

Non-Hispanic Black women are also significantly more likely to have a severe maternal morbidity (SMM) event at the time of delivery. For every maternal death there are 70 cases of SMM events that are considered “near misses.” These events can have long-term or short-term consequences to a woman’s health. Over the past 20 years, cases of SMM have increased by over 200%, while cases disproportionately affect Black women. One study found Black women experienced SMM at a rate 2.1 times greater than that of white women.

To better understand and address these disparities, researchers suggest providers increase screening for social determinants of health. Levels of stress, trauma, food insecurity, neighborhood violence, and access to prenatal care are all factors that may contribute to the disparities and warrant further investigation.

Although most maternal deaths result from cardiovascular and hypertensive disorders, researchers found Asian/Pacific Island women exhibit the highest prevalence of gestational diabetes, which can increase pregnancy complications, at 14.8%.

One study presented in the session focused on behavioral interventions and protective factors among women with gestational diabetes. A Kaiser Permanente analysis of women in northern California found Black women have a lower prevalence of gestational diabetes when compared with Asian Indian, Filipina, Southeast Asian and Chinese women. White women had the lowest rates of the disease overall.

Screening for postpartum diabetes is recommended to all women within 4 to 12 weeks postpartum. However, rates of screening vary among women with different racial and ethnic backgrounds, suggesting tailored strategies to reduce risk and improve healthcare behaviors may be effective.

Racial medicine, openly.

An additional study explored how racial and ethnic disparities impact severe neonatal morbidities, specifically among very preterm children (born <32 weeks of gestation). Preterm birth has been associated with several health conditions developing later in life, including diabetes.

Presenter Teresa Janevic, PhD, defined race as “linked to phenotype and /or ancestry that indexes one’s location on the US social hierarchy of socially constructed groupings (i.e., races) that has been based primarily on skin color.”

genes aren’t social

Africans in Africa also have the same ‘risk’ as one in America. No magic dirt.

In contrast, Janevic defined ethnicity as “tied to race and used both to distinguish diverse populations and to establish personal or group identity, usually based on shared culture or beliefs.”

Culture? Belief? Believe your way out of diabetes. I’ll wait.

In a population-based retrospective cohort analysis using hospital discharge data linked with vital statistics at birth and death records, researchers determined Black infants were at the highest risk of dying within less than 28 days after discharge, or suffering neonatal morbidities in the time between birth and discharge. Black infants were followed by Hispanic infants, while white and Asian infants had similar low risks.

We’ll see about that.

Of the 39 New York City hospitals included in the study, researchers found a 6-fold difference in risk of combined mortality and morbidity outcomes. “Black infants were at twice the risk of being at a hospital that has risk-adjusted high rates of combined mortality and morbidity,” Janevic noted, while Hispanic infants had a 1.5 increased risk to receive care from one of these hospitals. “Hospital quality where women of color deliver likely contributes to these disparities,” she concluded.

Like schools, it depends on the IQ of the people working there.

Another investigation detailed how environmental factors and population level exposures impact disparities in preterm birth and infant mortality. “Non-Hispanic Black infants compared with non-Hispanic white infants have twice the risk of death in the first year,” explained presenter Heather Burris, MD. “This is particularly striking because Black infants just make up 15% of all births in the United States but are counting for 29% of all deaths.”

no comment

Among causes of infant death, preterm birth and low birth weight related death, along with pregnancy complications, account for the highest racial and ethnic disparities between non-Hispanic Black and white infants. Black infants are also significantly more likely to be born preterm than white infants.

an r-factor unless twins

Researchers note genetics and education level have very little impact in accounting for disparities in preterm birth. Although women with higher education tend to have lower preterm birth rates, Black women who graduated from college have a higher risk of preterm birth than white women who dropped out of high school.

so, racial

I’m so glad white people already survived multiple genetic purges in our history.

Through analyzing delivery data and creating models based on air pollution severity in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, investigators discovered air pollution is associated with spontaneous preterm birth. Data also show Black Americans experience consistently higher exposure to air pollutants, measured in fine particulate matter (PM)2.5.

An additional analysis between preterm birth and nationwide neighborhood deprivation index (encompassing income below the poverty level, vacant homes, education levels, among other factors) found that Black women experience neighborhood deprivation exposure at almost 2 standard deviations (SDs) higher than white women in Philadelphia.

Overall, Black women are 4 times more likely to live in a neighborhood with high violent crime and high air pollution than white women. “When we look at preterm birthweights, we can see that it is women living in these high-high neighborhoods that have the highest risk of preterm birth,” Burris said. However, these associations were consistent regardless of race.

so non-sig

They gestate for less time than whites, this is known. Africans in Africa do it.

Now we’ve established some things. An r-study in Asian women.

Increased Perinatal Morbidity and Mortality Among Asian American and Pacific Islander Women in the United States

Background: Asian American/Pacific Islanders (AAPIs) are the fastest-growing racial group in the United States.

America is now owned by Asia, demographically.

Despite a higher socioeconomic status, AAPI women experience higher rates of maternal morbidity and mortality.

can’t pay your way out of r-genes

if controlled for SES, aka $, their data would be even worse

Methods: Using the National Inpatient Sample, we performed a retrospective cohort analysis of women who were hospitalized for delivery from 2002 to 2013. The primary outcome variable was inpatient mortality rate, and the presence of severe maternal morbidities was estimated using the Bateman Comorbidity Index, a validated tool for predicting obstetric morbidity.

Results: AAPI women presenting for delivery between 2003 and 2012 were older, more likely to reside in a zip code in the top quartile of annual income, be privately insured than Caucasian women,

so oppressed

where’s Asian privilege?

and less likely to have a higher Bateman Comorbidity Index. However, AAPI women had a higher likelihood of postpartum hemorrhage (3.4% vs 2.7%, P < .001), uterine atony, severe perineal lacerations, and severe maternal morbidities. Procedures such as transfusion, hysterectomy,

So they could have one kid and die, have one kid and have that die, OR have one kid and then their organs all removed – so no more kids?

Yes clearly our biological superiors, right weebs? Totally not rationalising a fetish, are we?

I wonder why one child was law? They don’t have a culture of many kids because they’re too r-select to survive without modern medicine. Wake up. They pretend 1-2 is a choice and that’s why they mock and envy large white families (3+ standard) like the Amish. They envy us that ability. They would die.

and mechanical ventilation were also more common in AAPI women.

Calling it – Mother Nature is anti-Asian.

Furthermore, AAPI women had a higher mortality rate that persisted despite adjustment for an apparently higher income and comorbidities (odds ratio 1.72, 95% confidence interval: 1.14-2.59, P = .01).

Conclusions: Despite having a higher socioeconomic status, AAPI women had higher rates of maternal mortality during hospitalization for delivery. This increase persisted even after adjustment for factors known to affect peripartum outcomes. Further investigation is needed to better clarify the causes of racial differences in maternal morbidity and mortality.


Science says –

If you want to survive childbirth – be white.

Almost like we evolved to during the Ice Age.


Results: A total of 360,370 women with postpartum hemorrhage from 2012 to 2014 were included in this analysis. Risk for severe morbidity was significantly higher among non-Hispanic black women (26.6%) than non-Hispanic white, Hispanic, or Asian or Pacific Islander women (20.7%, 22.5%, and 21.4%, respectively, P < .01).

The white is 20%, Asian is 21%.

And these are the fattest white people, like, ever.

White and Asian bolded-

For non-Hispanic black compared with non-Hispanic white, Hispanic, and Asian or Pacific Islander women risk was higher for disseminated intravascular coagulation (8.4% vs 7.1%, 6.8%, and 6.8%, respectively, P < .01) and transfusion (19.4% vs 13.9%, 16.1%, and 15.8%, respectively, P < .01). Black women were also more likely than non-Hispanic white women to undergo hysterectomy (2.4% vs 1.9%, P < .01), although Asian or Pacific Islander women were at highest risk (2.9%). Adjusting for comorbidity, black women remained at higher risk for severe morbidity (P < .01). Risk for death for non-Hispanic black women was significantly higher than for nonblack women (121.8 per 100,000 deliveries, 95% confidence interval, 94.7-156.8 vs 24.1 per 100,000 deliveries, 95% confidence interval, 19.2-30.2, respectively, P < .01).

The weebs either did 1. no research (typical gammas) or 2. they’re delusional.

Almost double the risk of hysterectomy, roughly. An additional 52% risk over white women, minimum, in just this study.

What’s the point of being married to them, at that point? Their baby machine is broken.

Infant Mortality and Asian Americans

Yes, we’re going there.

  • Asian American infants are 40 percent more likely to die from maternal complications as compared to non-Hispanic white mothers.

They have boy hips, duh.

For such a small segment of the population, their numbers shouldn’t be so high.

It doesn’t discuss mixed kids, I wonder why?

  • Non-Hispanic black (black) and non-Hispanic American Indian/Alaska Native (AI/AN) women experienced higher PRMRs (40.8 and 29.7, respectively) than all other racial/ethnic populations (white PRMR was 12.7, Asian/ Pacific Islander PRMR was 13.5 and Hispanic PRMR was 11.5).  This was 3.2 and 2.3 times higher than the PRMR for white women – and the gap widened among older age groups.

Racial medicine.

Notably, we found that, when aggregated, the top cause of death among Asian Americans is cancer. However, when disaggregated, there is wide variation in the leading cause of death. For instance, for Asian Indians, nearly twice as many men die of heart disease (31 percent), compared to cancer (18 percent). In contrast, for Koreans, the opposite is true — the death rate for cancer (34 percent) is much higher than the death rate for heart disease (19 percent).

Remember the breast cancer and Asian BMI/testosterone stuff?

Research led by the University of Birmingham has found that increased levels of hormones including testosterone could cause a brain condition that can lead to blindness in women.

We are all jealous of your waifu, yes.

Idiopathic Intracranial Hypertension—also known as IIH—is caused by  in the brain with consequences from blindness to incapacitating daily long-term headaches. IIH was originally identified over 100 years ago yet the cause of the condition has remained unknown although there has been much speculation about why more than 95 per cent of total incidence is in  with obesity.

And Asians, they’re 1/2 obese in America!

Lucky you.

 They then compared the results with the levels observed in women with obesity of the same age and body mass index (BMI), as well as a cohort of women with  (PCOS).

PCOS is far more common in Asians. Look it up.

Most notable were the high levels of the androgen ‘testosterone’ found in the blood in IIH women. Crucially, levels of androgens were uniquely increased in the brain fluid (CSF) of women with IIH. When the researchers, analysed human choroidal plexus tissue, which is the site in the brain where CSF is produced, they confirmed that androgens could increase the rate of CSF secretion, a potential driver for increased brain pressure.

Brain damage. How sexy.


On the other hand, South Asian women with PCOS, the region comprising the Indian subcontinent and surrounding countries, are known to have a higher degree of hirsutism…


Asian women with PCOS were more likely to have diabetes compared with Caucasian patients, suggesting they also have metabolic complications. 

Genetic components play important roles in the pathogenesis of PCOS,

Do their dodgy hormones make South Asians partially infertile?

Yes. Yes they do.

Results: We found that the South Asian women presented at a younger age for the management of sub-fertility. An extended stimulation phase and Caucasian ethnicity showed an inverse correlation with the number of oocytes retrieved in the PCOS subgroup. Caucasian ethnicity was associated with a higher fertilization rate however increase in body mass index (BMI) and the laboratory technique of IVF appeared to have a negative impact on fertilization rates in the PCOS subgroup. Commencing down regulation on day 1 of the cycles was negatively associated with fertilization rates in the tubal group. In terms of clinical pregnancy rates, the Caucasian PCOS had a 2.5 times (95% CI: 1.25-5) higher chance of an ongoing clinical pregnancy as compared with their Asian counterpart. Also, a unit increase in the basal FSH concentration reduced the odds of pregnancy by 18.6% (95% CI: 1.8-32.6%) in the PCOS group.

Conclusions: The Asian PCOS have a greater sensitivity to gonadotropin stimulation with lower fertilization and ongoing clinical pregnancy rates as compared with their Caucasian counterparts.

White women win again.

testosterone levels were higher in PCOS cases than in controls (P = 0.008 and 0.003, respectively).

But IVF, right? WRONG

The ethnicity of women undergoing fertility treatments like IVF can affect the rate of successful live births, according to new research. After adjusting for certain factors including age of patient at time of treatment, cause of female or male infertility, and type of treatment, the study found that White Irish, South Asian Indian, South Asian Bangladeshi, South Asian Pakistani, Black African, and Other Asian women had a significantly lower odds of a live birth than White British women.

White women, still winning. Thank God for the Ice Age.…-a0509015581

Overall, studies have shown higher testosterone levels in women and lower levels in men are related to incident diabetes. The major risk factors contributing to diabetes are biochemical, environmental, sedentary lifestyle, socioeconomic status and genetic factors. All of them together or independently are responsible for the development of the DM. [3] Besides, certain studies show Impaired Glucose Tolerance (IGT) is more common in females than males independent of age. [4]

We found a high prevalence of GDM among the Asian population. Asian women with common risk factors especially among those with history of previous GDM, congenital anomalies or macrosomia should receive additional attention from physician as high-risk cases for GDM in pregnancy.

 In the post-menopausal group, estrogens, testosterone and androstenedione increased with increasing BMI.

Let’s look at objective hotness!

Body mass index (BMI) was a very strong negative predictor of body attractiveness ratings, similar to previous findings. Zero-order associations between women’s mean hormone concentrations and mean attractiveness ratings were not significant; however, after controlling for BMI, attractiveness ratings were independently and positively associated with both estradiol and testosterone concentrations. Discussion focuses on the implications of these findings for whether attractiveness assessment mechanisms are specialized for the detection of cues of differential fecundity in young women’s bodies.

High T = ugly!

Did I mention water is wet? Can they seriously accuse of cherry picking? I’m not even looking hard.

Prior research has provided evidence that large breast size and low waist-to-hip ratio (WHR) are positively associated with women’s estrogen and progesterone concentrations,

Previously covered WHR, use search bar. Asians lose. Even black women do better.

Click to access ethnic-testosterone1.pdf

Asians have way more T as a race than Europeans, get over it. Historically, we considered them savages, less civilized, for that reason. How is this surprising? Do you think we colonised India for fun? It’s obvious in the broad manjaws, duh. Marquardt covered this. Anyone can do a replication study, but I suggest you include the women too, so it isn’t just a sexual effect but race.

From a blog “East Asians were found to have the highest average total plasma testosterone (5,673 ρg/mL) followed by Africans (5,442 ρg/mL) and then Europeans (4,992 ρg/mL). Given that the sample size for Africans is smaller (N < 10,000), their relative position may change with more data. Nonetheless, the claim that East Asians have the least testosterone is not supported by scientific data. “

Yeah, fake redpills who think T = manly, good thing. It’s just a hormone.

“There is no way of accurately determining free testosterone. Even if there was, this would also be irrelevant since bio-availability is prime. Since race realists use total serum testosterone, why is this an issue?”

true, it’s just applying the same standard

Culturally, gang rape is more normal in Asia than Africa. This is why. You don’t get African Taharrush, really. Asia has Eve Teasing and the like. Trust me, you don’t want this.

“Mass sexual assault is the collective sexual assault of women, and sometimes children, in public by groups of unrelated men. Typically acting under the protective cover of large gatherings, victims have reported being groped, stripped, beaten, bitten, penetrated and raped.”

As for the contention that there are no studies indicating a 10% difference between East Asians and Europeans, I did find one age controlled study where the Chinese sample had 8.8% more total T, 11.4% more bio-available T and 12% more free T than the European sample. The Japanese sample had 10.5%, 5.1% and 6.7% more than Europeans respectively [Wu et al. 1995]. Wonder if race realists discuss this study, or perhaps they are too busy in celebratory dance around the Korean/Swede campfire?

They’re not really redpill. I believe data even if I dislike it. Asians have high T as a race. Get over it.

High T can also dovetail with lower national IQs e.g. India, so…. why want this? Low IQ nations have more crime.

Additionally, this recent study shows HK Chinese having some 3% more bio-available T than US Europeans.

Lol, he’s right. But T isn’t a good thing. It’s just a hormone, in men or women.

Being a race realists seems to be a length engagement with delusion, fantasy and ‘scientific’ homo-erotica.

Not here, son. I believe the T-data. Penis size generally correlates to racial height (in white men), not really T. Forum bros are wrong again. Penis stuff is sexual selection, aka chosen by women.

There was a similar increase in the positive effect of penis size on attractiveness with a more masculine body shape (i.e., greater shoulder-to-hip ratio). Surprisingly, larger penis size and greater height had almost equivalent positive effects on male attractiveness. Our results support the hypothesis that female mate choice could have driven the evolution of larger penises in humans. More broadly, our results show that precopulatory sexual selection can play a role in the evolution of genital traits.

It’s even subracial (national male height).

I appreciate the skin tone joke in this graphic.

But if you go by nation, and percentage of height....

So according to this, hate the French!

Surprised Croatians rank so low.

It was concluded that all penile measurements are interrelated to each other; the height and weight also the other body measurements that are related to the penile measurements in less than 50%. It seems that the penile measurements are polygenic traits and are under multifactorial influences.

Not T.

There are racial differences in associations of hormone levels with age and BMI in late
reproductive age women. Further study is needed to replicate these findings and to determine the relationships of these hormonal associations with menopausal symptoms

Obesity is an important factor in hormone dynamics independent of age, race and smoking in mid-life women, although the mechanisms remain unclear.

From “A Study of the Correlation of Some Sex Hormone with Obesity in Women with Secondary Infertility” (google it)

Infertility is the inability to conceive a child for more than one year. The present study indicates
that the obesity associated with infertility. The aim of the study to determine follicle stimulating
hormone, luteinizing hormone, testosterone hormone and prolactin levels. and cholesterol and
triglyceride concentration in 2nd inferetid women. This study was carried out at kamal al-samaarai
hospital the data were collected from 95 secondary infertilial women were age between 16-45 years
old and grouped them in to obese (n = 46) and non obese(n = 49). There was no significant
difference between the two groups (p <0.05). Body mass index in Infertile obese women is slightly
higher than non obese Infertile women which is statistically significant (P<0.001). However LH,
TSH, cholesterol and triglyceride concentration in obese infertile women is significantly higher than
non obese infertile women (p >0.05).The BMI was correlated positively with triglyceride in obese
group while BMI was positive correlation highly significant with cholesterol in non obese group.
Regression analysis revealed obese to be strongly associated with observed infertility. The elevated
prolactin values in secondary infertile women clearly shows that there is a mechanism operating at
the anterior pituitary level which shows an abnormal distribution of FSH and LH which may further
explain the abnormal delay ovum maturation. This study also indicates obese associated with
infertile more than non obese women.

So, there’s a lot going on.

Explains the Asian fitness influencer rise (Asian body fat)

TLDR Asians carry more fat than whites (in America, at least).
Well yeah, the junk food and spices diet is hell on the hormones too. They evolved for multiple famines (especially the Chinese and Indians) so they tend to weight-gain like that, too. Fat deposition isn’t the same between race (black thighs/’ass’) so why would accumulation patterns and proclivity to gain work like that either?

Results: A convenient sample of 1626 adults with BMIs ≤35 was evaluated. Independent percentage body fat predictor variables in multiple regression models included 1/BMI, sex, age, and ethnic group (R values from 0.74 to 0.92 and SEEs from 2.8 to 5.4% fat). The prediction formulas were then used to prepare provisional healthy percentage body fat ranges based on published BMI limits for underweight (<18.5), overweight (≥25), and obesity (≥30).

Conclusion: This proposed approach and initial findings provide the groundwork and stimulus for establishing international healthy body fat ranges.

But they’re not the same. Bio-logically.


The Asian ‘gym girls’ also trying to pass off the manjaw as ‘gains’ by matching on the stomach and thighs, I’ve seen white lawyer types do the same. Do NOT fall for it, men. If the jaw is square and broad as a child and pre-teen, RUN.

The small, squat (squarish) skeleton and pedomorphic features of the Asian race (historically, accurately called Mongoloid if you can search for it in anthropology) already pre-dispose their young people (teens) to lower BMI anyway, so the ‘losing weight’ excuse is bullshit, they’re building muscle to match the jaw and trap some sucker with their high T and bad temper. This lower BMI is not a consequence of health (dietary or genetic) so compared to the unhealthiest white people EVER (sorry America) they still have higher BMIs. HOW.

White women have a naturally high BMI (taller, curves) so it’s actually worse than it looks. The effect is maintained in every age group, how can one fuck up age 20? Any 20yo complaining about their metabolism needs a slap.
The fat Asian hypothesis also holds true within the race, compared the Asian men to women matching age.

Every other claim about Asians it’s like [citation needed] yet when I go to look…. they lied.
I expected the one claim the weebs consistently made about Asians in America (being thin) must be true but … no.

18.5 is a terrible BMI cut-off because it includes anorexics, smokers, druggies and petite women all in one. Women look wildly different at low and too-low body fats, which also varies by race. At the same BMI, Asians look more husky because the skeleton is squared-off. They’re also likelier to lay down fat than muscle.

The Asians are larger than white women pre-menopause, what EXCUSE is there?
The only time whites actually have slightly higher BMIs (ever so slightly) is in the elderly range (60-79, at which point yeah you’re excused, you can go).
I’m seeing through the model minority propaganda and there’s nothing to it.
Rule #1 of moving to America – DON’T GET FAT. YOU HAD ONE JOB.

“In contrast, models for Asians predicted a different percentage body fat from that predicted for African Americans and whites. “

That’s code for ‘they evolved so much for famine that we had to invent new maths to count it’.

“For example, Deurenberg et al (35) found that American blacks had a 1.3-unit lower and Polynesians a 4.5-unit higher BMI than whites with the same body fatness (35). Even within the white cohort, the investigators observed small differences between Americans and Europeans.”

Asian placement is denser. Squat Mongoloid skeleton, anthropologically. If you disagree, it’s cope.

Americans are mixed white, generally, that’s why. German/French hybrids and other nonsense. You lose adaptive advantage from your subrace too.

They studied one of the thinnest types of Asians (japs) so I guarantee you others would be worse.

“The underlying causes of ethnic variation in relations between BMI and percentage body fat are likely due to small between-center body fat measurement differences and biological between-group differences (35).”

“The evaluation of Asians was confined to Japan and that of African Americans to the United States. Therefore, the underlying causes of observed ethnic differences in terms of measurement, environmental, and genetic factors are difficult to ascertain. Nevertheless, it appears evident that a single set of universal percentage body fat ranges cannot be easily developed without considerable additional analysis of this problem. Our equations and associated tables provide several ethnic-specific ranges as working guidelines. Because African Americans and whites differed only slightly in percentage body fat (by 1–2%) after BMI was first controlled for, we presented a combined equation (Equation 5) and table (Table 4) based on 4C percentage body fat for these 2 groups.”

That’s right, our fat deposition is more alike blacks than Asians. That’s how different the races are.

In a study surprising no one, high BMI also predicts depression.
Because depression is caused by INFLAMMATION, it’s an inflammatory condition!
The visceral fat is causing it, not the subcutaneous (which you need to live and is important for a woman’s hormones, gym girls are a mess).
So the #fitspo girls eating junk are STILL ‘depressed’ and on SSRIs.

So pleasant waifu disposition goes out the window.

Why bother?

For further proof of the famine-evolved rice farmer genes.

Background: Asians who have a healthy body mass index (BMI) range have been observed to have higher levels of obesity and risk of cardiovascular disease than whites, which suggests that the relation between BMI and adiposity may be different for Asians.

Objective: The primary aim of this study was to investigate the influence of childhood and adolescent exposure to a westernized environment on the relation between BMI and percentage body fat in young Asian American women.

So no, this isn’t their age. No cope here son.

Design: Secondary data from 129 Asian women, aged 20–25 y, with variable lengths of residence in the United States and 327 white women of comparable ages who had participated in the Latina and Asian Bone Health Study (1999–2000) and the Berkeley Bone Health Study (1998–2000), respectively, were analyzed by using multiple linear regression with percentage body fat as the outcome variable and place of birth, ethnicity, length of US residency, and BMI as predictor variables.

Results: Asians who lived in the United States <12 y showed the same relation between BMI and percentage body fat as did whites. In contrast, Asians who had lived in the United States ≥12 y had higher percentage body fat than did whites for BMIs (in kg/m2) <20.5 and lower percentage body fat for BMIs in the overweight and obese range.

Responding to the same stimuli wildly differently > genetic!

They’re more likely skinny-fat, aka fatal fat.

Whites evolved to eat Roman grains like processed wheat.

Conclusions: Our findings suggest that childhood environments may influence the relation between BMI and adiposity. Research is warranted on the role that childhood environments play in the accumulation and distribution of body fat and hence metabolic disease risk later in life.

There’s still a huge difference in the same environment.

Asians with more years in the United States had higher mean percentage body fat than did whites at low BMIs and lower mean percentage body fat at high BMIs with the regression lines intersecting at BMI ≈20.5 and body fat of 26.5%.


Again, Magic Dirt isn’t real. Enjoy your BBW Ting Tong for your golden years.

We are supremely jealous.

Asian-immigrant adults who were living in North America were observed to have higher adiposity levels

translation: chunkier

at the same BMI level than did whites (6). However, most of the Asian-immigrant adults studied were raised outside of North America. To our knowledge, our study was among the first studies to observe a difference in how BMI relates to percentage body fat between Asian Americans who had spent more years of childhood in the United States compared with Asian Americans who were minimally exposed to the United States during childhood and adolescence.

Lesson for weebs – do NOT move the Thai bride to America.

Stay in Asia or do NOT bother. She WILL get fat. You have been warned.

American-born Asians had a higher percentage of mothers with college degrees (59% of mothers compared with 37% of mothers in foreign-born Asians and 32% of mothers in whites).

Fat SJWs, great catch!

in our study, which suggested that obesity rates in our sample of Asians were likely lower than in the general population.

They admit it.

Is the general observation that, at the same BMI level, Asians have higher total body fat and visceral fat and higher risk of cardiovascular disease risk than do whites applicable to Asians in general,


or is this observation applicable only to Asians living in Asian societies? If the latter, does the environment during early life influence how body fat accumulates and distributes and, therefore, affects the relation between BMI and body fat? How strong a predictor of child growth and body composition is socioeconomic background and, in particular, the mother’s education? Are our findings also applicable to men?

We concluded that the early life environment may influence the relation between BMI and adiposity in later life. In particular, we speculated that Asian women substantially exposed to the American environment early in life exhibited different patterns of accumulation of body fat than did Asian women raised in Asia;

non-sig, see above

these differences may be partially attributable to environmental and lifestyle factors that affected diet and physical activity. For example, compared with Asian children raised in the United States, children who live in Asia tend to spend more time studying, whether in school or at home, and less time doing sports and engaging in recreational activities (25). In the past, diets of Asians raised in Asia also tended to be different, with a lower consumption of breakfast cereals, dairy products, and processed meats, than diets of Asians raised in the United States (26).

Yes, they do try to eat white. Silly Asians, didn’t evolve for dairy.

So your grandkids will definitely be fat, even if she isn’t by some fluke? Great, very likely to pass on your genome.

What a waste of time and resources.

However, with the rapid changes that have been taking place in Asian economies and the globalization of the food supply, we expect to see further changes in the diets of children in Asia (27) and, consequently, in body composition.

The understanding of how childhood environments influence the relation between BMI and percentage body fat has implications for the use of BMI as a screening indicator for obesity and obesity-related conditions. In addition, research to understand the influence of environmental factors on the accumulation and distribution of total body fat and metabolically active visceral fat during critical life stages will add insight into the use of clinically relevant screening tools for chronic disease risk.

Plan on growing old together, spending a loooong time with fatass.

In this observational study with a short follow-up of elderly Asian people, higher amounts of visceral fat, a marker for central obesity, were associated with decreased all-cause mortality.

South Asian v White men


South Asians are susceptible to insulin resistance even without obesity. We examined the characteristics of body fat content, distribution and function in South Asian men and their relationships to insulin resistance compared to Caucasians.

so no, you can’t tell by ‘looking at her’, your norms are informed by white women

Research Design and Methods

Twenty-nine South Asian and 18 Caucasian non-diabetic men (age 27±3 and 27±3 years, respectively) underwent euglycemic-hyperinsulinemic clamp for insulin sensitivity, underwater weighing for total body fat, MRI of entire abdomen for intraperitoneal (IP) and subcutaneous abdominal (SA) fat and biopsy of SA fat for adipocyte size.


Compared to Caucasians, in spite of similar BMI, South Asians had higher total body fat (22±6 and 15±4% of body weight; p-value<0.0001), higher SA fat (3.5±1.9 and 2.2±1.3 kg, respectively; p-value = 0.004), but no differences in IP fat (1.0±0.5 and 1.0±0.7 kg, respectively; p-value = 0.4). SA adipocyte cell size was significantly higher in South Asians (3491±1393 and 1648±864 µm2; p-value = 0.0001) and was inversely correlated with both glucose disposal rate (r-value = −0.57; p-value = 0.0008) and plasma adiponectin concentrations (r-value = −0.71; p-value<0.0001). Adipocyte size differences persisted even when SA was matched between South Asians and Caucasians.

Marry those genes, go ahead.


Insulin resistance in young South Asian men can be observed even without increase in IP fat mass and is related to large SA adipocytes size. Hence ethnic excess in insulin resistance in South Asians appears to be related more to excess truncal fat and dysfunctional adipose tissue than to excess visceral fat.

in the men

harsh to call a racial adaptation to famine ‘dysfunctional’

Waist-Hip Ratio and female beauty

The sexual dimorphism for this metric is obviously lowest on Asians.

Evidence is presented showing that body fat distribution as measured by waist-to-hip ratio (WHR) is correlated with youthfulness, reproductive endocrinologic status, and long-term health risk in women. Three studies show that men judge women with low WHR as attractive. Study 1 documents that minor changes in WHRs of Miss America winners and Playboy playmates have occurred over the past 30-60 years. Study 2 shows that college-age men find female figures with low WHR more attractive, healthier, and of greater reproductive value than figures with a higher WHR. In Study 3, 25- to 85-year-old men were found to prefer female figures with lower WHR and assign them higher ratings of attractiveness and reproductive potential. It is suggested that WHR represents an important bodily feature associated with physical attractiveness as well as with health and reproductive potential. A hypothesis is proposed to explain how WHR influences female attractiveness and its role in mate selection.

Hello sexual selection, tied intimately to natural selection.

PDF here:

also connected to “desire and capability for having childrenp7 or 299.

so K-type women may have better WHR.

Normal weight women have the most positive attributes associated.

Overweight category was universally unattractive.
It’d be nice to see a male study on this. I think Western women would want more children if fewer men were obese.

Why Asians are considered youthful but not sexy (they’d usually fall in the underweight group):

The variables of attractiveness, sexiness, and good health were located close to each other, suggesting that subjects perceived them to be closely related.

Attributes of desire and capability for having children were located close to each other in the solution space but farther from attractiveness, sexiness, and good health, implying that subjects did not perceive a great similarity between these two sets of attributes.

Finally, the attribute of youthfulness was located alone and away from both sets of other attributes. Thus, subjects apparently did not perceive youthfulness to be related to any other measured attributes of good health, sexiness, attractiveness, and desire and capability for having children.

So there’s that. Nobody’s jealous.

Figure N7 was located closer to attractiveness, sexiness, and good health as well as desire and capability for having children than any other Figure.

Normal weight for frame (and race) + most nubile WHR would make sense.
More of those genes survived.

Figure N9 was located closest to desire and capability for having children, whereas Figure N8 was located between Figure N7 and Figure N9. The figure N10 was grouped along with overweight figures, which were not perceived to be closely associated with any of the attributes under investigation. Underweight female figures, U7 and U8, were associated only with youthfulness. However, underweight figures with high WHR (U9 and U10) were perceived as neither youthful nor healthy, in spite of the fact that their depicted body weight was quite similar to figures with lower WHR.

Women with an atrocious WHR (boy hips, no waist) and under or overweight for their skeleton are objectively unattractive from an evolutionary standpoint. This would apply whether it’s a Jap, a Ruskie or an American.

Stop calling sexy science ‘racist’ because it doesn’t share your fetish.

This chart drags you harder than I ever could.

Your Asian girlfriend with the boy hips is approximately as attractive to the world as the average WHR white fat chick. That’s your level, accept it.

It’s also a fact we cannot accurately perceive attractiveness of the racial outgroup as well as our own, so an awareness of ingroup flaws changes nothing.

Most modern women straight up don’t look healthy, whether they’re American, European or, yes, Asian.

Stop trying to make boy hips = sexy happen. It’s not going to happen.

Look at the damn gradient on that underweight thing. The solution to fat women isn’t anorexia. That also suggests bad genes. In fact, at least the fat percentage on slightly overweight 0.7 WHR women suggests femininity and fertility.

“Overall, it seems that subjects inferred reproductive capability from body fat”

What does a foetus feed from?

“Thus, it seems that although WHR is related to health and attractiveness, body weight is perceived to be related to reproductive capability”


“As a group, underweight figures were assigned the lowest reproductive capability, followed by overweight figures and then normal weight figures.”

Suck on that, soyboys.

You actually tend to downgrade. That’s why the Democrat-voting soyboys all want an Asian girlfriend and expressly don’t want kids with it.

“Overall, it appears that both fatness and thinness are perceived as unattractive, and such figures are not perceived as having especially high reproductive potential. “

Not womanly. Remember that word? This:

Not girly, not sexy, not cute, not hot. Womanly.

You can’t discuss women in a reproductive, evolutionary context without it.

Thus, consistent with the present findings, men did not find thin or underweight figures attractive.

If you only care for other male opinions.

There is some evidence that suggests that being extremely underweight or overweight can have adverse effects on female reproductive functions.

Ya don’t say?

A critical body mass has been shown to be significantly related to the onset of menstrual cycle and its maintenance (Frisch & McCarthur, 1974), although recent evidence (DeRidder et al., 1990) suggests that it is the body fat distribution, rather than body fat mass or body weight, that is related to early pubertal development.

Distribution varies by race.

Africans are the most pronounced in women then Europeans shapely but delicate then Asians last – no shape, very yang flesh (broad but flat or full in the middle like cortisol fat) and almost nothing to distribute.

Am I imagining all of this?

Underweight females (15% below ideal body weight) have been reported to have a higher incidence of oligomenorrhea (menses 35 days or more apart) and amenorrhea and to have a higher prevalence of ovu-latory infertility than normal weight females (Green, Weiss, & Daling, 1986).

Underweight women also give birth to infants who are small and growth delayed, and such infants often have permanently impaired intellectual and physical development (Supy, Steer, McCusker, Steele, & Jacobs, 1988).

Menstrual dysfunction and ovulatory infertility also occur more often in females who are 20% above ideal body weight (Green et al., 1986). Morbid obesity in females with high WHR has been shown to increase the degree of androgenicity (increased percentage of free testosterone) and associated menstrual and ovulatory problems (Kirschner & Samojilik, 1991). Thus, the reproductive success of a woman may be low in spite of a high level of fat deposits if the regional distribution of fat is not appropriate, that is, gynoid.


Finally, the finding that underweight figures were assigned high rankings for youthfulness but not for attractiveness (or other attributes related to reproductive potential) is difficult to reconcile with some evolutionarily based mate selection hypotheses.

Normal men aren’t pedos.

Youthfulness and health have been proprosed as absolute criteria for female attractiveness (Symons, 1987).

Stick with health.

Health has good or bad, you have no negative way to assess youth e.g. immature.

Features of physical appearance associated with youth supposedly provide the strongest and most reliable cues for female reproductive potential. The present finding illustrates that the relationship of youthfulness and attractiveness is quite complex.

Not really.

A woman who is judged to be attractive is also found to be youthful; however, youthfulness alone does not make a woman attractive. Apparently, youthfulness is a necessary, but not a sufficient condition, for determination of female physical attractiveness.

crazed pointing-

also, don’t try to chalk this up to taste:

“Furthermore, if the ideal of female attractiveness is arbitrary and ever changing, no evidence of transgenerational stability in the meaning of WHR should be found, as older men are more likely to be exposed to different ideals of attractiveness than are younger men.”


“Older men did not associate health with underweight figures, including those with lower WHR.”

TLDR: Pedos are wrong. Underweight, waistless wonders are not attractive.

Study 2, rubbing salt in that fact.

Optimal Waist-to-Hip Ratios in Women Activate Neural Reward Centers in Men

Secondary sexual characteristics convey information about reproductive potential. In the same way that facial symmetry and masculinity, and shoulder-to-hip ratio convey information about reproductive/genetic quality in males, waist-to-hip-ratio (WHR) is a phenotypic cue to fertility, fecundity, neurodevelopmental resources in offspring, and overall health, and is indicative of “good genes” in women. Here, using fMRI, we found that males show activation in brain reward centers in response to naked female bodies when surgically altered to express an optimal (∼0.7) WHR with redistributed body fat, but relatively unaffected body mass index (BMI). Relative to presurgical bodies, brain activation to postsurgical bodies was observed in bilateral orbital frontal cortex. While changes in BMI only revealed activation in visual brain substrates, changes in WHR revealed activation in the anterior cingulate cortex, an area associated with reward processing and decision-making. When regressing ratings of attractiveness on brain activation, we observed activation in forebrain substrates, notably the nucleus accumbens, a forebrain nucleus highly involved in reward processes.

These findings suggest that an hourglass figure (i.e., an optimal WHR) activates brain centers that drive appetitive sociality/attention toward females that represent the highest-quality reproductive partners. This is the first description of a neural correlate implicating WHR as a putative honest biological signal of female reproductive viability and its effects on men’s neurological processing.


Study 3

Men report stronger attraction to femininity in women’s faces when their testosterone levels are high

Many studies have shown that women’s judgments of men’s attractiveness are affected by changes in levels of sex hormones. However, no studies have tested for associations between changes in levels of sex hormones and men’s judgments of women’s attractiveness. To investigate this issue, we compared men’s attractiveness judgments of feminized and masculinized women’s and men’s faces in test sessions where salivary testosterone was high and test sessions where salivary testosterone was relatively low.

This is why we need studies on men too.

Men reported stronger attraction to femininity in women’s faces in test sessions where salivary testosterone was high than in test sessions where salivary testosterone was low. This effect was found to be specific to judgments of opposite-sex faces. The strength of men’s reported attraction to femininity in men’s faces did not differ between high and low testosterone test sessions, suggesting that the effect of testosterone that we observed for judgments of women’s faces was not due to a general response bias. Collectively, these findings suggest that changes in testosterone levels contribute to the strength of men’s reported attraction to femininity in women’s faces and complement previous findings showing that testosterone modulates men’s interest in sexual stimuli.

Study 4

Beauty is in the eye of the plastic surgeon: Waist–hip ratio (WHR) and women’s attractiveness

Attractiveness conveys reliable information about a woman’s age, health, and fertility. Body fat distribution, as measured by waist-to-hip ratio (WHR), is a reliable cue to a woman’s age, health, and fertility, and affects judgment of women’s attractiveness. WHR is positively correlated with overall body weight or body mass index (BMI). Some researchers have argued that BMI, rather than WHR, affects judgments of female attractiveness. To evaluate the role of WHR, independent of BMI, we secured photographs of pre- and post-operative women who have undergone micro-fat grafting surgery. In this surgery, surgeons harvest fat tissue from the waist region and implant it on the buttocks. Post-operatively, all women have a lower WHR but some gain weight whereas others lose body weight. Results indicate that participants judge post-operative photographs as more attractive than pre-operative photographs, independent of post-operative changes in body weight or BMI. These results indicate that WHR is a key feature of women’s attractiveness.


Let’s look historically. Study 5

Trends in waist-to-hip ratio and its determinants in adults in Finland from 1987 to 1997

Background: Although abdominal obesity has been shown to be an important risk factor for cardiovascular disease and a variety of other diseases, secular changes in fat distribution in populations have rarely been documented.

Objective: Our objective was to assess trends in waist-to-hip ratio (WHR) in the Finnish population during a 10-y period. In addition, we investigated the associations of WHR with body mass index (BMI), age, education, and lifestyle factors.

Design: Three independent cross-sectional surveys were carried out at 5-y intervals between 1987 and 1997. Altogether, 15096 randomly selected men and women aged 25–64 y participated in these surveys.

Results: The WHR increased in both men and women during the 10-y period (P< 0.0001). In men, the strongest upward trend took place in the first 5-y period and then seemed to plateau; in women, the WHR continued to increase into the 1990s. In both sexes, the most prominent increase was observed in subjects aged ≥45 y. The WHR increased in all education-level groups, the lowest WHR being among those with the highest education. Age (18% in men, 12% in women) and BMI (33% in men, 25% in women) accounted for most of the variation in WHR, whereas only 3% was explained by education and lifestyle factors.

Conclusions: Abdominal obesity is a growing problem in Finland, especially in persons aged ≥45 y. These adverse changes in body shape continued to take place, particularly in women, in the 1990s.

Something in the food?

More history, prehistoric. Study 6

Preferred Women’s Waist-to-Hip Ratio Variation over the Last 2,500 Years

The ratio between the body circumference at the waist and the hips (or WHR) is a secondary sexual trait that is unique to humans and is well known to influence men’s mate preferences. Because a woman’s WHR also provides information about her age, health and fertility, men’s preference concerning this physical feature may possibly be a cognitive adaptation selected in the human lineage. However, it is unclear whether the preferred WHR in western countries reflects a universal ideal, as geographic variation in non-western areas has been found, and discordances about its temporal consistency remain in the literature. We analyzed the WHR of women considered as ideally beautiful who were depicted in western artworks from 500 BCE to the present. These vestiges of the past feminine ideal were then compared to more recent symbols of beauty: Playboy models and winners of several Miss pageants from 1920 to 2014. We found that the ideal WHR has changed over time in western societies: it was constant during almost a millennium in antiquity (from 500 BCE to 400 CE) and has decreased from the 15th century to the present. Then, based on Playboy models and Miss pageants winners, this decrease appears to slow down or even reverse during the second half of the 20th century. The universality of an ideal WHR is thus challenged, and historical changes in western societies could have caused these variations in men’s preferences. The potential adaptive explanations for these results are discussed.

Should’ve controlled for race.

Why not look at male WHR? Plus sperm health? Found:

  • The volume of ejaculate decreases in a linear fashion with increasing BMI (suggesting an inverse relationship).
  • The sperm quality and viability declines with increasing waist circumference.
  • Investigators also discovered that quality of semen decreases (such as sperm viability, motility, semen volume) with increasing body size; however, no relationship was observed between sperm DNA fragmentation index and physical activity or obesity.

Latter requires time.

Various research and clinical studies suggests that subfertility in men is multifactorial i.e. several factors can impact the quality of reproductive health.

  • Abnormal sperm production: Study conducted by Jensen and associates (2) suggested that abnormal BMI is very strongly linked to impaired sperm production. One of the many reasons is, abnormal metabolism of testosterone (which plays a key role in the production of healthy and viable sperms).
  • Abdominal obesity and risk of metabolic disorders: According to a new study reported in the Human Reproduction (3), investigators provided statistical evidence that abnormal BMI and abdominal obesity is very strongly linked to a number of health issues (such as cardiovascular dysfunction, atherosclerosis, type 2 diabetes, hypertension and others). Needless to say that these health issues have a deleterious effect on the sexual health regardless of the body-mass index (or BMI).
  • Obesity, physical activity and testosterone: Testosterone levels tends to decline in males who have a sedentary lifestyle. Various research and clinical studies indicates that aerobic activity or exercise can improve testosterone metabolism in males significantly.

1. Eisenberg, M. L., Kim, S., Chen, Z., Sundaram, R., Schisterman, E. F., & Louis, G. M. B. (2014). The relationship between male BMI and waist circumference on semen quality: data from the LIFE study. Human Reproduction, 29(2), 193-200.

2. Jensen, T. K., Andersson, A. M., Jørgensen, N., Andersen, A. G., Carlsen, E., & Skakkebæk, N. E. (2004). Body mass index in relation to semen quality and reproductive hormones among 1,558 Danish men. Fertility and sterility, 82(4), 863-870.

3. Hammiche, F., Laven, J. S., Twigt, J. M., Boellaard, W. P., Steegers, E. A., & Steegers-Theunissen, R. P. (2012). Body mass index and central adiposity are associated with sperm quality in men of subfertile couples. Human reproduction, 27(8), 2365-2372.

Yet they don’t tell men this information.

Back to women

Cross-cultural variation in men’s preference for sexual dimorphism in women’s faces.

Both attractiveness judgements and mate preferences vary considerably cross-culturally.


We investigated whether men’s preference for femininity in women’s faces varies between 28 countries with diverse health conditions by analysing responses of 1972 heterosexual participants. Although men in all countries preferred feminized over masculinized female faces, we found substantial differences between countries in the magnitude of men’s preferences. Using an average femininity preference for each country, we found men’s facial femininity preferences correlated positively with the health of the nation, which explained 50.4% of the variation among countries. The weakest preferences for femininity were found in Nepal and strongest in Japan. As high femininity in women is associated with lower success in competition for resources and lower dominance, it is possible that in harsher environments, men prefer cues to resource holding potential over high fecundity.

Asia is weird for dimorphism studies.

Hence the focus on health.

While the economy is bad, it isn’t surprising men prefer manly looking women.

It’s temporary. There’ll be a flood of divorces as the economy improves. Men will suddenly see how mannish the wife has been and be repulsed. Menopause also makes women look more mannish, including higher WHR. So much for a youth argument there.

Click to access nihms827194.pdf

Factors Underlying the Temporal Increase in Maternal Mortality in the United States

They don’t say more non-white mothers or more mixed race babies, so it’s wrong. They guess.

Britain changes BMI standard to reflect race reality

The whole thing is good.

The reality of race has been confirmed once again with the news that the UK’s National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) has changed standard obesity measure threshold for Asians and other “ethnic groups” living in that country.

According to new rules set out by NICE, Asians and “other ethnic groups” (whites, as readers will know, in the eyes of the establishment, are not an “ethnic group”) must be extra careful about their weight because they are prone to diseases like diabetes.

The new target brings the UK in line with Indian and World Health Organization recommendations and says that a 5ft 11in (1.8m) Asian man should weigh below 165 lb (75kg).

According to the official guidance on the NICE website, Professor Mike Kelly, Director of the Centre for Public Health at NICE, said that the “point at which the level of body fat becomes risky to health varies between ethnic groups.

“Healthcare workers should apply lower thresholds to people from black, Asian and other minority ethnic groups than to those of white European descent….

I can hear the chanting now. Biology is racist.

It’s like, but would you rather they die because you dislike the truth?

I think the latter would be more racist, don’t you?